Talk:Pickup truck

Pickup truck is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 19, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted

Consumption in l/100 km ?

...seems like a relevant ball mark figure.--SvenAERTS (talk) 13:06, 30 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's not clear what you are trying to say. Please clarify. Stepho talk 02:00, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Move Minitruck modifications to Pickup truck

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the merge request was: Not moved. This has been open for a year with little input and no consensus for a move. Eagleash (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Since Minitruck modifications mostly describes modifications for pickup trucks, it would make sense to merge that article to its appropriate section here. Minitruck modifications also has notability problems which justifies this merging, unless there is a better article it can move to. CubeSats 4U 07:06, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment the article doesn't contain anything worth moving. --Cornellier (talk) 11:13, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Rename to Minitruck instead. I'm convinced that there is an article to be had about this particular strand of custom culture, whatever the state of the current article. But it's much more about the customisation than pickups in general. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:19, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pickup lorry

I know that Brits use the term 'lorry' where the US and Australia (my home) use the term 'truck'. But I've never hear the term 'pickup lorry' used. Since this was recently added to the article, I'd like to hear from some Brits about how common this term is and whether any other term is more common in the UK. Stepho talk 09:41, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Never heard of it (3rd generation lorry driver). "Flatbed lorry" would be the term used, whether it had a flat bed, or a flat bed with drop sides. Pickups are rare anyway because it rains too much. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:35, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Seemed a little unusual but I wasn't sure. Thanks. Stepho talk 10:45, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, 'Pick-up Truck' is a used term for the car/suv[4x4]-like pick-ups/utes, whilst "Flatbed lorry" would be for the bigger, full sized HGV trucks

For British people or Europeans a pickup does not qualify as a truck or lorry. It is considered as a big car with open loading space instead of a trunk. A truck or lorry has to have at least 7,5 tons gross vehicle weight to be perceived as such in the UK or the EU, and there is no pickup which is that big, except for the F-650 and F-750 perhaps. In fact, everything below 16 tons gross vehicle weight is considered a small truck in UK/EU. A "real truck" has 40 tons or more ... i.e. what is called a Class-8-Truck in the US. -- Alexey Topol (talk) 13:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So how would you suggest using that fact to make changes to this article? In the US heavy duty vehicle weight ratings start at 8500lb (about 3850kg). A 7500kg minimum would be class 5 and above in the US. I think most would consider class 4 heavy trucks to be "trucks" even if they aren't class 8 semis. Springee (talk) 13:42, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Beware that this is a 3 year old discussion that was pretty much worked out.

Also beware that different regions used different terminology. In the US they call them "pickup trucks" but often shorten it to just "trucks". They also call the 20 tonne cargo vehicle "trucks" and rely on context to differentiate. In Australia we recognise "pickup truck" but typically call them "utes" (traditionally short for coupe utility but lately extended to cover all pickup trucks). Australians reserve "truck" for the big stuff (10 tonne and up). Europeans call the big stuff "lorries" but I'm a bit vague on what they call the small stuff - I've assumed they call them pickups in the rare times they are seen. Stepho talk 23:56, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cybertruck

Someone's just added a Tesla Cybertruck photo to the gallery ... 'ere we go. My feeling is that the article should include present and past production vehicles only. Otherwise we're going to see rampant creep. Not sure if there's any WP policy on this. --Cornellier (talk) 22:28, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it is premature. But I also know that other editors will be adding it as fast as we can delete it. It was hard enough to keep the Trukla out when we had good grounds to stand on. But this one is in a grey area. Stepho talk 22:52, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Exclude until it's actually being delivered to customers and even then it's not clear it should be included. This is an article on the general topic of pickups. Thus a class of vehicles almost as old as the mass produced automobile. As a concept cat with no details and which might vary greatly when/if every produced why would the vehicle have weight for inclusion in this topic? Springee (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gallery

WP Image Use Policy gives guidelines at WP:GALLERY. Here are a few points:

Wikipedia is not an image repository.
A gallery is not a tool to shoehorn images into an article
Images should be captioned to explain their relevance to the article

Currently the gallery is not conformant to the above, in particular the following:

let's stick to mainstream production vehicles; no concepts
the Montana is already at Coupé utility and should be deleted; Holden could be moved there
The Suzuki Carry already has its own page where it's described as a kei truck
the two RAMs, the F-350, and the Triton are all the same config

I believe that the onus is on those who wish to include these images to explain why they should be included. Right now it looks to me like a rather indiscriminate collection of photos. --Cornellier (talk) 23:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We've started flip-flopping between old and new version of the gallery, so I'm pointing out WP:BRD advice of leaving it in the original state while we discuss it. After the discussion we can then edit according to the outcome. Stepho talk 02:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There are no rules or conventions against images being in multiple articles - so saying an image has been used in another article has no bearing.

The gallery should try to cover different types of pickups, so I'm at a loss for why you would want to remove kei pickup trucks. It's certainly not what an American would think of as a pickup truck but other countries do think that way.

Similar for the Holden ute - it's a form of pickup that is popular in some countries (eg Australia and South Africa). Why would we want to not show it?

Fixing captions by deleting the image seems a strange solution. Kind of like a doctor who recomends amuptation for curing everything.

I'm not against trimming images that convey essentially the same thing (RAM, F-350, Triton). That part I agree with.

I'm not against concept pickup trucks having an image - but it must demonstrate something that the other images don't.

To reiterate, a set of images that show a good sweep of different types of pickup trucks is a good thing. This includes types of pickup trucks from around the world. Stepho talk 02:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, I agree 100% with Cornellier stance on the issue. If we try to make everyone happy, we'll have fifty images in no time. Most automotive articles are over-illustrated for that reason. I disagree we should try to include an example of every local particularism here, especially if that type of thing has it's own article already. --Urbanoc (talk) 13:09, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed that we don't need fifty+ images. Agreed that we will never make everybody happy. However, I do believe we should have at least the more common types of pickup trucks from around the world. To my mind that includes the US style pickup (eg Ford F-150, RAM or similar), a coupe utility (eg Ford Falcon ute or Holden Commodore ute, very common in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa), Kei trucks (very common in Japan). The US style should have flat bed and well body variations. A 4-door crew cab would also be good (eg Toyota Hilux). The antique Chevy is a nice touch – history is just as important as current vehicles. That's somewhat less than 50 and still covers the majority of types – the whole idea of galley is to be representative with a reasonable number of images.

This article has always suffered from the attitude that if it isn't popular in the US then it doesn't belong here – I am very much against that attitude. Stepho talk 07:43, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've re-ordered the gallery so it is by date. I think it would be good to skip the duplicated types and replace them with two earlier vehicles - my suggestions:. Eddaido (talk) 11:05, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1937 Ford V8 wellside
1948 International KB3 flatbed
1951 International L110

WP:GALLERY states "Images should be captioned to explain their relevance to the article". I thinking doing so will help the discussion on which images should be present. Per the above discussion I suggest the article or the gallery contain one, and not more than one of the following:

a songthaew
a coupé utility / ute: have the Holden
a Kei truck: have the Suzuki
crew cab: have Ford F-Series in article, don't need in gallery.
flat bed truck: don't have
long wheelbase vs. short
RV conversion: have already in article, don't need in gallery
something to show wheel wells in bed vs. outside bed.
a cab over
maybe a monster truck
police or fire dept. livery (have already)
a limited number of historical firsts, ideally also illustrating (and not duplicating) one or more of the above points

Suggest excluding concepts and models (e.g. LEGO model). So it could look like this:

Early compact Datsun Truck
1960 Chevrolet Stepside. A stepside has the wheel wells outside the bed.]]
1962 Volkswagen Type 2 2-door utility with single cab over
1990 Suzuki Carry, a Kei truck
Songthaew conversion
The car-based coupé utility 2006 Holden Ute
A modern flatbed truck
Monster truck
Ford Ranger in French National Gendarmerie livery
Flat sided truck showing wheel well intrusion into bed.

--Cornellier (talk) 15:42, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes, I had forgotten the step-side and cab-over variants. The Dodge A100 and VW Kombi utility are good examples. And of course we have umpteen examples of step-side pickup trucks.

I would use a different image for the flatbed than the "modern" - to an Australian (and probably most non-N.American countries) that looks like a full-size truck (ie like a Mack or Iveco EuroCargo truck). The red KB3 looks ok - although a rear picture would be even better.

Likewise, the International Harvester borders on being a full-size truck. I'm a bit 50/50 on this one because it's also a crew cab - although the French Ford Ranger is also a crew cab.

Monster trucks should not be included because they are custom vehicles.

I would leave out toys - even though I collect model cars myself and regret that my kids no longer play with Lego :(

An image showing dual rear wheels (ie 4 wheels on a single axle) would be good - but not essential. We could also show 6x6 pickups (eg Land Rover made some) but again, I wouldn't treat that as essential.

Lastly, @Eddaido, please don't change the gallery while it is under discussion. We can change it when the dust has settled. Stepho talk 01:46, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Version 0.2, taking account of the above comments. A rear view of the dually would be better. Also an ID on the chevy. And the well intrusion shot could be better & should have model ID. --Cornellier (talk) 05:16, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Early compact Datsun Truck
1962 Volkswagen Type 2 with single cab over and a dropside bed.
1990 Suzuki Carry, a Kei truck
Songthaew conversion
Dually Chevrolet flatbed truck with dual wheels on the rear axle for improved towing.
The car-based coupé utility 2006 Holden Ute
Double cab Ford Ranger in French National Gendarmerie livery
Flat sided truck showing wheel well intrusion into bed.

We're shaping up pretty good. Rear pics for the duallies and flatbeds would be nice but the front pic you found is acceptabe. Only one more thing - the captions should say "pickup truck" instead of just "truck" because in many parts of the world "truck" means the big ones carrying 5-30 tons of cargo. Stepho talk 10:47, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But suggest leaving Datsun Truck and Kei truck alone per WP:NOPIPE. --Cornellier (talk) 19:23, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Stepho talk 01:06, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Crew cabs for the family

JackFromReedsburg, Stepho-wrs, I wanted to respectfully step into these edits [[1]],[[2]]. In context I don't think the Japanese trucks make sense in that paragraph. While it appears the Japanese did have a 4 door pickup in Japan before the 4 door IH in the North American market, the context of that paragraph seems focused on the NA market. The limited distribution of the Japanese trucks at the time would have had no impact on the migration of trucks from purely utility vehicles to a personal/work vehicle. BTW, I'm also not sure I agree with the claim that it was the advent of the 4 door pickup that made trucks a popular personal vehicle. 4 door pickups were almost exclusively 3/4 or 1 ton models until sometime in the 90s (in the NA market). The majority of the personal use pickups have been 1/2 ton models. Perhaps things were different in markets like Australia. Still, that is my OR. Springee (talk) 02:44, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If the paragraph is concentrated on American pickups it is only because an American wrote it from an America perspective. As it was before I added the Stout a few years ago, it read like Americans were the first to implement crewcabs. This violates WP:GLOBAL. The other points I agree with you. Stepho talk 03:05, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that paragraph is more focused on the NA market. I'll see if I can rewrite it to better express the development of the crew cab trucks, as I know that the IH Travelette was more a utility vehicle, that focused on a 6-passenger cab, whereas the later trucks focused on being a personal vehicle. I don't see an issue with adding the Japanese trucks, and they should be included. JackFromReedsburg (talk | contribs) 03:08, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Stepho talk 03:12, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Systemic bias?

User:PhoenixBlitzkrieg has slapped a WP:CSB on the article. Is there evidence that the current state of the content is the result of systemic bias? Or is it a reflection of the available references? Or some other problem? Can PhoenixBlitzkrieg answer these questions and suggest ways to improve the article? Your goal is an improved article, not a tagged article. Please see WP:CLEANUPTAG for guidelines. --Cornellier (talk) 23:46, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see a huge issue with the state of the article right now. Obviously there may be small improvements here and there, but thats not reason enough for a tag. If the user doesn't defend their inclusion for the tag, then it should just be removed. JackFromReedsburg (talk | contribs) 23:59, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. That tag is PB's only edit to the article and there are no current discussions on the topic. I've removed the tag as unsupported. Springee (talk) 00:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To me, the article seems exclusively talking about the pickup from a US viewpoint, apart from the brief mention of Australia and South Africa in the very first paragraph. The international markets section gives very little information about these cars in other countries, just what models are popular. I know these cars have been popular in other countries both now and historically, but the article barely mentions that. Generally, if I can improve an article, I will, but I know nothing about pickup trucks (which is why I came to this article in the first place). I saw a problem, figured someone better qualified than me could fix it, so tagged it. If I used the wrong tag, sorry. Lithium (talk) 22:54, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pickup-Payload just a joke?

I wonder why a pickup is so limited in payload capacity ... There are lots of so-called "half-ton trucks" out there and if I get that right their payload is 500 kg, i.e. half of a ton. My little European hatchback with just over 1,000 kg empty weight can carry 515 kg according to its papers ... and that already accounts for the weight of the driver (75 kg as per Euro standards) and a full gas tank, so 515 kg is what you can really load into the trunk in addition to your own bones. And that makes it a half-ton car officially. So I really wonder why a huge pickup "truck" cannot carry more than my tiny Euro hatchback car, at least in terms of weight. That a pickup can carry more bulky, voluminous items is well understood. -- Alexey Topol (talk) 13:17, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think you will find it was a historical classification. It appears the current F-150 has a payload capacity ranging from 1,745 to 2,238 lbs. The current 1 ton F-350 ranges from 3,893 to 4,663 lbs. Springee (talk) 13:47, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article makes no mention of payload. The smallest pickup that I know of is the Suzuki Mighty Boy with a payload of 3 feathers. The largest I know of is the Ford F-650 based pickup http://www.f650pickups.com/bj-xlt.html with a payload best described as massive. Most passenger car based pickups (without a separate chassis) are about 500 kgs. Some passenger car based pickups with a separate chassis go to 1000 kg (eg Holden 1 tonne ute). Japanese light truck based pickups (eg Toyota Hilux) are also about 1000 kg. US style pickups go bigger.

Double check your papers. Roughly speaking, payload (including driver and passengers) is typically about 50% of the vehicle's unladen weight - more than that has handling issues. Tare mass is vehicle with 10 litres of fuel, no driver/passengers, minimum factory weight without accessories - ready for sale. Kerb mass is tare plus full fuel plus installed accessories - ready to be used. Gross is the maximum including fuel, driver, passengers, accessories, payload and weight on the towbar - never to be exceeded in any circumstances. See https://www.carsguide.com.au/tradies/advice/vehicle-weights-explained-tare-kerb-gvm-payload-and-trailer-figures-73041 Stepho talk 23:44, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is a Pickup is a "Truck" or not

In all over the world: Nope. Only in US and Canada, this vehicle is a "Truck". Wikipedia English isn't the American Wikipedia, and so it must reflect a worldwide view of a non-American subject. In Europe and most part of the world, Pickups called "Light commercial vehicle". Only in the US it is called "Truck". זור987 (talk) 12:18, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

truck

זור987 (talk · contribs) and myself are having a disagreement over the term "truck". Some markets, like America, call them "trucks". But in many other markets (such my home in Australia), just plain "truck" implies something that carries multiple tons of payload (eg a Mack truck). So that's not a good term by itself. However, they are still cargo carrying vehicles with open cargo platforms. So while they may not be labelled in all countries as just a plain "truck" they are still technically trucks - even if they are tiny. Some markets call them just "pickups". But practically every market will recognise "pickup truck", even if it's not the preferred term. Since Wikipedia is a global encyclopaedia, a term that is recognised by the majority of countries is preferred over a term that is not recognised. "Pickup truck" covers the majority of markets. Stepho talk 12:20, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Americans often uses pickup trucks as real trucks with no cargo bed and have a truck like charger (Like garbage container like in a garbage truck). Others have open or closed cargo beds, and these are the common form of pickups in Israel and generally with non-American pickups, where they aren't considered trucks in that form. זור987 (talk) 12:30, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't this an WP:ENGVAR kind of thing? It should be left as it was. MrOllie (talk) 12:37, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think we need to correct a lot of automotive terms. A "sedan" is a chair carried on poles. A roadster is a light buggy with two wheels. A truck is the part of a rail car that holds the wheels and axles. A car is pulled behind a train and batteries are relevant to describe artillery not EVs. All these articles need to be relabeled into things like the type of automobile named after a light single horse carriage and a type of automobile named after the part of a train car that includes the wheels and supports the load of the train car. This will ensure we don't confuse crazy "modern" misuses of well established terms. The only alternative is we accept that these definitions can be fluid and may vary by region but are typically not going to be confused even if they vary by region. We might also accept that when these terms first came into being, before WW1 I believe, in automotive terms, a truck was a vehicle with an open bed for hauling stuff. When Ford released a factory bodied truck version of the Model T it was reasonable to see it as just a smaller version of the trucks that others were already producing. Springee (talk) 13:20, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

987, I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. In particular, I don't understand what you mean by a truck with no cargo bed or a truck like a charger. Perhaps you could point to some images of the type of pickup trucks you are talking about and the type that you see in Israel and supply your term for each of them. Then we can look for some something to agree on. Stepho talk 02:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Given that "truck" is generally recognizable to most modern English speakers as being a vehicle designed for carrying cargo, I don't think it's an unclear term to use despite being associated with heavier commercial vehicles in some regions. Specifying "pickup truck" or "light truck" clarifies its size. A pickup box can be removed and a flatbed installed - it is now a "flatbed truck" even if it is a small one. Or, a utility box with storage compartments and a ladder rack can be installed, as used in an array of trades - in North America, that would still be called a truck. --Sable232 (talk) 19:33, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Utility beds and flat beds

Do cab chassis trucks which get sold with no bed and later get equipped with an upfit such as a utility bed count for the purposes of this article? I was thinking about including a picture of one such as this

[3]

Utility beds seem to fit the criteria in the introduction, but what does everyone else think?

Additionally, do flatbeds count for this article? I recently updated the flatbed dually picture to a better one and was wondering, since the introduction says a pickup truck has 3 low walls, whereas a flatbed doesn't seem to fulfill those criteria.

~~ TKOIII (talk) 21:54, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

F250 utility truck

Holden 1-tonner ute (flatbed)

As long as the bed has no top (a van) and the sides go no more than halfway up (stake-bed or dump truck) then I'd say it's okay. Especially since the chassis is also used uncontroversially as a pickup.

I've also given an example of the similar Holden 1-tonner ute (flat bed pickup), which us Aussies count as a traditional ute/pickup. Stepho talk 22:53, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Caption of first image in the article

Is it really necessary to include that the Ford F150 Supercrew in the image has wind deflectors? That's not a feature unique to pickup trucks so I don't really see the relevance. If there's a valid reason for its inclusion though, let me know. ~~ TKOIII (talk) 19:16, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Since no one seemed to have an opinion on it, I went ahead and removed it. If anyone disagrees feel free to speak up ~~

pick up

The term pick up was for an attachment for the "model T" Ford the term pick-up became populur during the 1920's when you could buy an additio nfrom Ford ,and PICK IT UP at your local TRAIN DEPOT 209.193.54.43 (talk) 05:17, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is a component that you "pick up" from the depot. It is not a pick-up truck. So it has no purpose being mentioned in this article. Otherwise we may as well add "pick up lines" for the dating scene. Stepho talk 09:30, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]