Talk:Donn Beach

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• According to Trader Vic's (www.tradervics.com), MaiTai is Tahitian for "the very best". Just a thought for a correction. - DavidL9999

I lived in Tahiti for 25 years. As far as I know, Trader Vic never set foot in the place.

"Maitai" or "mai tai" means "good".

"Maitai roa" or "mai tai roa", which, according to the Trader Vic story, is what the first person to drink his concoction cried out, means "very good".

Trust me on this....

vandalism

a Don the Beachcombers in WEST Lafayette, Louisiana?????? Even if it were just plain Lafayette, that would be remarkable enough.... Hayford Peirce (talk) 21:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Arnold Bittner, who married Beach's ex wife, was born in Indiana. Stephen Crane, probably the third most important person in tiki bar history, was also born in Indiana. An Indiana location seems plausible. This was likely not vandalism, just an error between LA and IN. However, it is also worth noting that Beach spent considerable time in New Orleans when he was younger.

When Gantt opened Don's Beachcomber Cafe

A change has just been made to the openeing date, from 1934 to 1933. Prior to this change, the specified reference was the Wall Street Journal. After the change, that reference was removed, and a user forum was referenced. There are several problems with the new source: (1) It's a user forum, and as such is not a reliable source. (2) Even within the cited source, there are contradictions as to whether it is 1933 or 1934. (3) Forum messages refer to the Van Nuys [Valley] News, which certainly isn't as reliable as the WSJ -- and in any case two articles are cited, one which says reputedly says 1933 and one which says 1934. Of course, we don't even know if the Van Nuys News ever had such articles, since the forum is not a reliable source. --Larry (talk) 18:27, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

There are pieces of ephemera from Don the beachcomber that both cite 1933 as the specific opening year, or reference by saying "25 years in business" in 1958. The confusion is likely derived from the date when the business license was first obtained in 1934 and other ephemera which has the 1934 date. In my book Mai-Kai History and Mystery of the Iconic Tiki Restaurant I say it was 1933. All evidence from those who knew the man Donn Beach and plenty of evidence from ephemera points to that as the correct date. Anecdotal corroboration comes from sources placing him and his brother in LA at that time and living near the address. More details will be in my forthcoming history book on Donn Beach. Swankpad (talk) 19:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

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Article title

Note: This article was originally written under the title Don the Beachcomber, but the article is mostly about the person, not the restaurant. He sometimes called himself Don the Beachcomber but that was never his actual name. His name was Donn Beach (after he changed it legally from Ernest Gantt). So I have moved the article and talk page to the title Donn Beach. -- MelanieN (talk) 19:24, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Number of locations

A source says that there were 16 restaurants at its heighth. However, a counting of the actual locations listed on this page is much closer to 25. Either the source is incorrect, or more clarity is needed in the article for what "at its heighth" means, or some of the locations are in error.

Legal name/ Restaurant name conflation

The background on Beach's name is certainly vexing, with multiple sources with different information, even with varying chronological orders. We do know his tombstone is inscribed "Donn E R G Beach" (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/14470706). Most sources indicate his name was legally changed to Donn Beach. Others show variations, and it is difficult to tell how many variations were actual legal name changes or just reported as such when they were in fact nicknames, or if he had a succession of legal name changes. In Sippin' Safari (Jeff Berry, 10th Anniverstary edition, 2017, pg 49), Berry indicates the legal name change as to "Don E.R. Beachcomber, Donn Beach for short", which makes little sense. Researchers with access to the Social Security Death Index might be helpful in this area. In any event, the grave marker name, and (very loose) consensus of sources would seem to mean that "Donn Beach" is the best for now. As an aside, in footnotes on the same page of Sippin' Safari, Berry infers that the name change was a result of avoiding attention due to an early (illegal) speakeasy of Donn's known as "Ernie's Place" (as alleged by Art Snyder). Regarding the restaurant's name, there is a similar problem of what actual early and later names were for the restaurant, with some indicating it was first simply the "Don Beachcomber" restaurant. While some pictures of the sign show Don the Beachcomber (likely Hollywood), later photos in Hawaii show a "Don the Beachcomber's" (with an apostrophe) at the International Market Place. This may have been done because that is (1) what people began to call it, (2) to mimic Trader Vic's, or (3) because he had lost rights to the restaurant to his ex-wife.Nicholas Nastrusnic (talk) 12:47, 13 March 2019 (UTC) Also, the additional birth name of "Beaumount" is of unknown origin until a birth certifcate can be located.

Birthplace

There are also many conflicting sources regarding his birthplace. Many for Texas and also New Orleans. There may be a need to be able to see/reference an actual birth certificate to ultimately get the correct information. Lesser attempts have thus far not provided true certainty.Nicholas Nastrusnic (talk) 00:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

I couldn’t find anything about Beach in the Dallas Observer reference; what am I missing? Food Republic does not seem like a particularly reliable source. Hawaiibeachcomber is definitely not a reliable source, and it includes a lot of what sounds like made-up material. (For one thing, their version of his childhood doesn’t allow time for him to be in Texas by age 3, which we know he was.) Personally I am inclined to accept KCET as the most reliable but it's probably best to leave it either-or until you find something definitive. -- MelanieN (talk) 01:13, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Not sure what happened there but I fixed the link to the Dallas paper. I agree on the other link's credibility, something just needed to be put there for balance to show there was conflicting information. My hunch is that none of these newspaper stories are doing research/verifying and are just cutting and pasting what is on other sites (not feeling it is a consequential distinction for their stories where he was born). Until a birth certificate can be located I'm not sure we can definitely tell. His parents both seem to be from Texas; unless they relocated for a short period of time, or he was born while they were traveling, the Limestone location seems more likely but leaving it as not definitively known at least makes sure Wikipedia is not the source of erroneous information.

I think you are right: all of these articles are just copying their information from other sources, not doing their own research. (Except Hawaiibeachcomber, I think they are making stuff up; they have way too much folksy detail that is not in any other source. I would drop them.) -- MelanieN (talk) 02:34, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

All documents I have seen point to his birth in Texas. Military draft card and induction papers. All census records. Anything remotely official says Texas. The exception was his death certificate, but that info came from Phoebe Beach who was just repeating what Donn said in his later life. There is the one odd census record that has his mother as being born in Louisiana, but all other census records say she was born in Texas. His whole family tree is Texas after Mississippi and Alabama, etc. No Louisiana anywhere. Swankpad (talk) 19:14, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

FYI, Texas does a birth certificate for an Ernest Gantt dob 02/22/1907. They won't however release it for free, so I may not pursue it and the process for getting it seems rather complicated.

Picture

Would be great if anyone has an actual picture of Beach that qualifies as being uploadable to Commons for inclusion here.

The Lethal Leeteg

Edgar Leeteg was painter (of sorts) who lived in Tahiti for many years and who probably invented the Exotic Painting on Black Velvet (Velvet painting). I myself lived in Tahiti for a number of years and used to see a small sign on the side of the road not far from the Moorea airport. It said Beach, and I always vaguely wondered why a sign for a beach would be in English and not French. Little did I know that that was where Donn Beach had his houseboat. If I had known, I would instantly have gone to introduce myself. For many years in the late 50s and early 60s my family's favorite restaurant in the entire world was D. the Beach in Hollywood, where they would serve me a Navy Grog when I was 15 or so (and with my mother). Looking back on it 60 years later, it's STILL my favorite restaurant in all the world, and I'm the guy who originally scanned the restaurant cover and put it into this article.

I also, about 6 or 7 years ago, wrote a private-eye detective story set in Tahiti called "The Lethal Leeteg", after the name of a newly invented Tiki drink. In the story, my detective hero does a job (successfully) for Donn Beach, then living on his houseboat. Involving a stolen Leeteg that Donn had on his houseboat. It was published in Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine and a while later was nominated by a Private Eye group as the best short story of the year. It didn't win, of course, but I was flattered. http://crimespreemag.com/2014-shamus-award-winners/

Anyway, do you think a mention of this should creep into this article as a minor bit of info, or throw-away, or not? Hayford Peirce (talk) 23:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Mr. Peirce, and congrats on your short story. Can you find us a source - a review or some kind of reporting about the story - that points out the story's connection to Mr. Beach? I'm afraid we need an independent source, not just the author; per Wikipedia's rules on WP:Verifiability we have to have an independent published source to include it. -- MelanieN (talk) 04:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I learned that many years ago when I first began writing here. Although I didn't always adhere to the rule, in fact I frequently protested vehemently against it. It was one of the reasons a lot of us migrated to the now-failed Citizendium. I'll do a little research, but it's gonna be a tough slog to find something as specific as what we need. Manuia!, as we used to say in Tahiti when we raised a rum punch -- in 27 years down there, I never had a mai tai! Hayford Peirce (talk) 14:57, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Height -- this discussion should be here and not on my own talk page -- thanks!

I guess "high" is subjective. I have never been, and it appears from what I have read that there was more than one treehouse so maybe there was higher ones over time. I sure would not want to fall out of this regardless: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11311958@N06/42508360134 Would be great if someone could find a free use image of the tree house to place into the International Market Place article, it is sorely needed. Cheers. Nicholas Nastrusnic (talk) 01:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

There are LOTS of pictures of the treehouse on the net. Surely ONE of them must be available. I saw the house back in '61, back when Donn was still using it and you could rent it for your own meal. At the time I'm pretty sure it was the ONLY one in the tree. I saw it again back in '00, when the Marketplace was pretty run down but can't remember if there were more than one. It's quite possible.... Hayford Peirce (talk) 15:26, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

There were two. One was used as an office by Donn, and the other was the "Treehouse for Two" dining room. The later may have been removed at some point. Swankpad (talk) 19:21, 16 December 2022 (UTC)