Talk:The Mountain Goats

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Low-importance).

Untitled

Should "Going to Marrakesh" be added to the Alpha series? --Sammka 20:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC) 131.251.134.150 (talk) 10:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)Technicaly this is an extra glenns song and shouldn't even be added to the going to series without at least a caveat saying so. Also although it sounds like it could be related to the Alpha series, without a source it's merely speculation. How notable is this band? -- Antaeus Feldspar 04:44, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say notable enough - being signed to 4AD [1], a notable indie label, and having a fair amount of listeners(traditional googling turns up pages about mountain goats(the animals), but "john darnielle" "mountain goats" has 5,950 hits [2] and Mountain Goats are #695 in the Audioscrobbler artist charts [3], for what that's worth) should surely be enough to warrant a Wikipedia entry? "They" also make great music, but that is probably beside the point. -- Svk 18:08, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, yes, sadly it is. =D Believe me, if simply making great music was enough to justify a Wikipedia article, I'd have created Blue Vinyl Lounge, George Kahn, The Phoenix Trap, Joy Machine, Kim Justice and a whole lot of others long ago. But it's important that there be some standard of notability; I just have no idea how that standard can be fairly assessed in independent music (despite having some favorite independent musicians, I don't know which indie labels are big and which are the-band-itself-in-a-funny-hat -- and even the latter does not automatically mean they're not notable, it just makes it harder to assess.) -- Antaeus Feldspar 18:50, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Glad to see that my amateur starting page has evolved into something greater :).

Regarding the relative "notableness" or "importance" of this band, you can say that a lot of bands with Wikipedia articles were not notable or influential at all. For example, you could ask "How is Keane notable? How have they changed music?", yet there exists a Wikipedia page about Keane at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keane. I'm not justifying having a page for every single band that exists, even if they're still practicing in their grandparents' basement, but any band with a somewhat prolonged career and an established fanbase that has released music should not be denied a page on Wikipedia. Here, I would be adamantly against any hard-and-fast rules saying which bands can and cannot be on Wikipedia. If it bothers you that, for example, Belle and Sebastian has a page on Wikipedia, put yourself in the shoes of a fan and ask yourself "Is Belle and Sebastian significant enough in music to have a small nook of an Internet encyclopedia about them?" Pizzahunks 18:46, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

in re: "Glad to see that my amateur starting page has evolved into something greater :)" Yeah I found the page on some random search in wikipedia and was thrilled to see a page, but then again was disappointed at it's lack of information and completeness. So I took it unpon myself to begin transforming it into something better. So I've kinda adopted this page into making it a constantly evolving entity that can show off what the mountain goats really are. I can't describe how thrilled I was when I saw that you took it upon yourself to create that page for The Coroner's Gambit, seems that my dreams for this page are starting to reach fruition already :). Argnoth 21:19, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, my capacity to integrate the Mountain Goats into Wikipedia is limited, because I only have The Coroner's Gambit and Protein Source of the Future...Now! (Don't worry about Protein Source, I'm working on a page for that too.)

Let there be a day when all of the reddies on the Mountain Goats page become blue! :) Pizzahunks 00:55, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I played around with the first paragraph a bit: what do you think? Lemuria 07:44, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm not logged in know, but i do think this band has big enough fanbase for a wikipedia article. Wikipedia is an easy source were people look up what ever they want to know and the more obscure bands there is the better easier to find info on them. This band is not even that obscure , they (he) is actually quite big. I also removed the POV tag because the article is not biased in anyways and the disscusion page had no discusion on how it could be biased

The TV show "Weeds" features at least one song, so I reckon they must be pretty notable. Also, who cares if they are notable? If they aren't, noone will read the article. I don't think wikipedia are short on disk space... 121.72.4.29 04:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup

This requires major cleanup - it looks like a large chunk came from another source, and the whole thing is much too hagiographic. Phil Sandifer 05:20, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the history different? I liked the way it was divided in three chapters.

I'm going to be rewriting a large chunk of this article, fashioning the structure after the Bright Eyes article. They're a similar band, in that there's one central singer-songwriter and a rotating band (although the Mountain Goats is more permanant). I think this will work well to clean the artcle up. If Anyone has a problem with this or thoughts, comment soon.--sethbdoe 00:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

how about a better (non-grainy) picture?

I really think there should be more talk of the quotes that he puts into every release, as well as a list of other people he's worked with. (Matthall 17:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Those are simple enough to work on. I'll attempt it. Jellypuzzle | ^Talk 19:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If no-one objects, I might add a bit to the introduction. I'll avoid repeating anything that is said later in the article. Cheers, PunkOn 07:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone added a very dubious Mountain Goats album about Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons... while it doesn't sound entire unlike Darnielle to cover such a band, its lack of mention on the Mountain Goats official site and its bizarre manner of entry seems more like vandalism than contribution. Fresh Fire Franky

According to mountain-goats.com (the official site for the band), the bio states, "The Mountain Goats' first recordings were covers of songs by Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons." While I'm not sure that these recordings would truly qualify as an album, it is not a case of vandalism. How relevant it is in a Wikipedia entry is not my area of expertise, though.BigCat8 06:11, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed songs not listed on themountaingoats.net as either "Alpha" songs or part of the Tallahassee album. I am unsure if New Chevolet in Flames and Design Your Own Container Garden (both from the See America Right single) are Alpha songs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.239.119.199 (talk) 05:10, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Updated intro, 7/8/2010

Hi all! I've fleshed out the introduction even more (and corrected some unverifiable or mis-attributed information.) I also corrected a few facts in the infobox. Feel free to clean up the formatting on the new references I've added--that's my main wiki-weakness. I thought it was especially important to clarify that (at least according to every sources I've been able to find) John is still the sole core, official member of the Mountain Goats. I'm not sure where the previous editor got their "three core members" information from--not the FAQ they linked to, that's for sure.... --Mercurylanes (talk) 02:59, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of name

I heard that the band were originally called The Goats but had to change there name as there was already a band of that name, so they chose Mountain Goats as a tongue in cheek reference to where they come from a la Charlatans UK or London Suede. Can anyone supply a ref to back this up or indeed the confirm that they took it from the Screaming Jay Hawkins song, which does mention mountain goats. Yorkshiresky 21:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.archive.org/details/tmg2007-06-17.Zoop Listen to 09 - Going To Georgia - 06-16-07 from 4:20 "This is the song from which I took the name of my band." 154.20.22.46 (talk) 00:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dead famous people

A number of their songs are about the deaths of prominent musicians, e.g. "Song for Dennis Brown", "Sept 15 1983", "Last Day of Jimi Hendrix's Life". Somebody more conversant than me in Mountain Goats lore should collate these songs as another song cycle. Lfh (talk) 14:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spliting into "The Discography of The Mountain Goats"

It seems to me a large portion of this article is taken up the extensive discography and song series sections. I think it would make more sense to split them off into their own article, as per other artists with large bodies of work, e.g. The Beatles, John Cale, Elliott Smith. That way this one can focus on other aspects of the band. Let me say though, I do think a section on the song series should be here, but as more of a summary of some of themes, rather than a list, which would make more sense in the discography. --Leodmacleod (talk) 04:48, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Huge discography, and the band is noteworthy enough for it. -DMurphy (talk) 03:08, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I support the idea that the discography should be separated into it's own article from sheer size, I think the song series concept is central enough to who the band is that it warrants discussion. I would say, perhaps clean up the lists of songs under this section, but largely leave it be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by N1ghtcrwler (talk • contribs) 08:46, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have created The Mountain Goats discography. Regards, Giant Snowman 10:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I also support the above, but I see that the song series concept remains in its original state, which takes up way too much space on the page and looks just like a discography entry. As others above have suggested, I believe it should be summarized instead of providing this giant list.Brakoholic (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm really new to wikipedia. This is my first post. I love the Mountain Goats and was wondering how to add this in. (I know this is the wrong section to post in but I couldn't find a better place. In Other Media, the Mountain Goats in referenced on page 201 in a Harlequin romance novel called Christmas in Key West by Cynthia Thomason. Here is my source: http://www.mountain-goats.com/forums/read.php?2,48460,48478#msg-48478. And also, I believe that 2000 copies of Moon Colony Bloodbath were made but I don't have a source for that one. Amynameisalice (talk) 17:08, 12 July 2009 (UTC)AmynameisaliceAmynameisalice (talk) 17:08, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of songs

Is the full categorized list necessary? Featured articles for more notable bands such as Radiohead, The Beatles and Metallica only contain a Discography section, which lists albums and their respective release dates. I don't think that the song series are sufficiently notable to be included, and none of it is referenced. Aqx (talk) 16:41, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. There should be mention of the song series, since it's a big part of his work, but there's no reason for this complete list. It's excessive. I'd be down to write a short paragraph to replace in the next week or so. --Leodmacleod (talk) 03:59, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More cleanup!

Now that the band's notability is solidly established (I'm sort of sad to see this was in question as late as 2006), this article needs some cleanup as it could be much more concise and informative. Ex: NY Mag published a very in-depth article about the band/John last year, information from which would be valuable to this page - yet it is not cited anywhere. I plan to take on this task in the next few weeks but would like to hear from any other informed contributors. Helsabott (talk) 07:29, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how notable this is, but several episodes of Adult Swim's "Moral Orel," particularly late in the second season, make use of Mountain Goats songs. Surely someone more assiduous than myself could find a citation and work that in here. 72.0.15.8 (talk) 21:15, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Annotated Mountain Goats

I've added The Annotated Mountain Goats to the external links section. This is a project by me and a few other tMG fans, so I've been reluctant to add it for a while, but I think it's a very strong project at this point with very good sources, and arguable one of the best available, so I thought I'd add it in. If anyone sees this as problematic, please say so here and let's talk about it. Thanks! Kyle Barbour 00:59, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

4th Member

In an April 2016 blog post on the band's official website, the Mountain Goats announced the addition of a fourth member, Matt Douglas as a multi instrumentalist. He does not appear to have a Wikipedia page but should certainly be listed as one of the members. In addition there should be a reference to him joining probably in the 2010-Present section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mangosquash (talk • contribs) 17:26, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We've had this come up before. This 2015 edit added Douglas into the infobox with no sources or reasoning, which was later reversed without reasoning. I think it's fine to mention Douglas in the History section, but as of now, Douglas isn't an unambiguous member of the band. As it stands, I don't think he should be mentioned in the lead or the infobox. Darnielle calling the group a "quartet" doesn't necessarily grant him member status. I'd be glad to be proven wrong by a less ambiguous source. Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 22:31, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually now that I've stumbled upon this tweet, I'm taking back what I said. Darnielle referring to Douglas as "full-time" seems pretty straightforward to me. I'm fine with listing him as the fourth member, assuming no one else has reasons to doubt it. – Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 14:28, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Seems legit, feel free to add. Karst (talk) 14:44, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Citation format fix request

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The "am_bio2" citation is surrounded by two closing tags, so please change

The band's name is a reference to the [[Screamin' Jay Hawkins]] song "Yellow Coat".<ref name="am_bio2" />...<ref name="am_bio2" />

to

The band's name is a reference to the [[Screamin' Jay Hawkins]] song "Yellow Coat".<ref name="am_bio2">...<ref name="am_bio2" />

209.6.229.194 (talk) 16:14, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done Another editor recently changed the reference name from am_bio to am_bio2, and caused the citation error. I have fixed it back. -- ferret (talk) 23:28, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

notable unreleased songs (2010-present)

Should "Going Back to California" should be added? It's a song Darnielle released in 2016 as a thank you to fans who donated to Carolina Abortion Fund fundraiser. [1][2] 50.120.65.103 (talk) 22:40, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If we can find a reliable third party source for this, then we can consider putting it on The Mountain Goats discography article. Regardless, I don't think it belongs on this article. Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 14:55, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on The Mountain Goats. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:42, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on The Mountain Goats. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added {{dead link}} tag to http://3bos.com/label/artists/tmg/tmg_discography.html
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050311063102/http://www.4ad.com/artists/themountaingoats/biography2.html to http://4ad.com/artists/themountaingoats/biography2.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:58, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Citations needed

There are a lot of "citation needed" tags on this article which need sources. I'm especially curious of the mentions of an oath not to write profane songs taken by John in November 1996, which I've seen quoted from here on a lot of sites. I haven't found any proof for any of these statements here on the internet, at least. Could whoever added in those lines cite their sources? Eridanus3302 (talk) 12:50, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to second this request. This is the original edit adding that point, which interestingly includes the full date of this statement (the year was corrected in the next edit). The timeframe puts it at the end of the second European tour, so it's possible that the statement has been translated from a European publication. That would explain why the quote varies between websites and why the original is hard to find. —Rutlandbaconsouthamptonshakespeare (talk) 14:42, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I can add in and have found multiple sources for a bit of the citation needed parts, but I'm still incredibly curious as to where the November 1996 quote came about. I've seen it mentioned around, but there's really nothing verifiable. Xs zhang6 (talk) 08:50, 11 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We Shall All Be Healed set in Pomona?

As Eridanus mentioned, there's a lot of citations needed, but I wanted to bring attention to the claim that WSABH is set in Pomona? I've never found any sources for it, and I've never even heard it mentioned on any messageboards or fan circles. Everything Darnielle has said about the album, eg in the Marc Maron podcast has been strictly within the context of first Claremont, and then Portland, Oregon. All the locations mentioned in the album are places that either he or another member of the band has a direct connection to, such as Chino or Claremont, so I don't understand why it would be set in Pomona. If anyone knows anything, could they cite the source? I'm incredibly curious, and I might delete it if no one has anything.

Xs zhang6 (talk) 22:46, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2022

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the "In other media" section of this article, The Mountain Goat's song "Only Takes a Few" from "tick, tick... BOOM!" should be added. A0630! (talk) 02:32, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure whether this needs to be added. We do have another page dedicated towards all their songs. --Ferien (talk) 09:19, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Moral Orel

their song No Children was used in Moral Orel season 3 episode 1 107.126.24.106 (talk) 17:17, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Missing Info?

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see any mention of The Walking Dead featuring a song as part of a big scene in an episode. In the "Still" episode was the first time a song has been featured in the second half of Season 4. At the end of the "Still" episode, the song that plays in the background as Daryl Dixon and Beth Green torch the house they had been staying at is "Up The Wolves" by The Mountain Goats. I would add this piece but the entry for The Mountain Goats is locked! Reference: https://comicbook.com/popculturenow/news/the-walking-dead-song-up-the-wolves-by-the-mountain-goats/#:~:text=At%20the%20end%20of%20the,No%20matter%20where%20you%20live. HotPinkToes (talk) 15:38, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

St. Vincent listed as Annie Clark?

I'm not super familiar with this artist, but isn't it a little strange for her to be credited not by her stage name, but by her "real name?" If there's a legit reason for this please share it—otherwise I'd seriously consider altering the reference to be her stage name because I think it's more appropriate and recognizable TariffedSparrow (talk) 04:38, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]